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Writer's pictureTravis Leech

PoPCast Episode 05 Transcript

Travis: All right, so welcome to a new episode of Popcast. Whitney and I today are joined by two amazing people and we are going to begin by handing over the reins to the two of you to introduce yourself to our listeners. We already know who you are, but tell us a little bit about who you are. What do listeners need to know about you before we get started?


Corrine Arens: All right. Well, first off, thank you for having us. We feel so honored to be here and share our work that the two of you have gifted to us. My name is Corinne Arens and currently I'm an elementary instructional coach for the Blue Springs School District. We are 13 elementaries that we service. So at the district level, there are six of us and we kind of are content focused. And so we work alongside consultants to make some  different decisions on what is best for our teachers. And we are so lucky that our paths have crossed with your work. So that's who I am.  


Katie White: Yeah, and I'm Katie White, and I second that thank you to the two of you that Corinne so eloquently put, and I am the six through eight ELA instructional coach in the same district, in Blue Springs School District. I am your typical middle school teacher through and through. I'm a middle school teacher at heart. And so I love that awkward middle ground. I come from a seventh grade ELA classroom. It's deep in my, in my veins. I came straight from the classroom to the position and I am so lucky to be a support to the teachers who are my teammates. And so I think that's really important and I enjoy it.  


Whitney: Well, we are so glad you two are here. And we just decided to take the PoPCast Reboot in a little bit different of a direction for this episode by speaking to educators in the field who are working to implement Patterns of Power at the district level into all the schools.

So we are super thrilled today to have Corinne and Katie with us as we talk about what is going on in one of my favorite districts, Blue Springs  in Missouri. So all right, well, let's go ahead then and get started thinking about Patterns of Power. How did you get into Patterns of Power? Kind of what is your origin story there?    


Katie: Well, I'll start. I was just a fangirl always of Jeff Anderson's work. When Mechanically Inclined came out by Jeff Anderson that just changed like my philosophy of teaching in ways that went beyond even grammar and mechanics and so really my origin story about the work of grammar mechanics and usage, I would say, came really through Jeff Anderson's work and just how not only is he just a wonderful person, but I just feel like he just talks in a way through his some of his work that I read that spoke to me really deeply. And so when Patterns of Power, the middle, the adolescent level came out it was easy for the team of teachers in the middle level at Blue Springs to jump right in. We had been fully engulfed in Jeff Anderson's writer's workshop mode already. And so Patterns of Power just made sense and it was very tangible, which was a very enticing aspect of the work in general. Corinne, go ahead.  


Corrine: Okay. Well, once upon a time in elementary land, we adopted the workshop model. And so we got to work really intimately with Catherine Bomer and Matt Glover, and their work helped us to create a culture of writers that see themselves as writing and have authentic voices in the work and are excited to put pencil to paper.  And then as the story unfolded, we had the compositional piece down really, really well, but the conventional piece, those language standards that elementary teachers don't have access to instruction specifically pertaining to that work. So at the middle level, I don't know a whole lot about what it takes to be a middle school teacher, but I'm assuming you're more specialized and you have more of those classes that you work specifically with: the grammar and sentence structure and, and the things that elementary teachers, we we shy away from that because I say we, because collectively it seems like that's a trend that we feel comfortable fixing periods and capitals and spaces, but when it comes to the other deeper things, we have a lack of content knowledge.


And so there was a day that we have 13 building-based coaches, and Catherine and I were having conversations with the coaches and we were like, we need something for our conventional work. And Catherine was like, no one, no one does it better and nothing is more complimentary than Whitney and Jeff. And so we need their work.


And so we purchased a copy of Patterns of Power for all of our coaches. And we started there just kind of digging in a little bit and getting curious and the coaches were dabbling in it. And so that's where our initial work came in. 


Whitney: Okay. Well, let's go ahead then and talk about that initial implementation plan. You, you, that was the origin. So then when it came time to implement district wide, I know we started with the coaches and  how did it go from there? 


Katie: Yeah, I think for our district entirely, I think we started actually with Patterns of Power at the middle level, just an inkling before we did at the elementary level. We actually started with a summer course that was only by invitation, only for teachers to come. And it was basically a summer course designed almost as a book study around the adolescent version of Patterns of Power. And so we just invited teachers to join us for a few days in the summer. We did just a deep dive into the book. We thought about its application and the invitation, the invitational process, and how this can be applied into our own classrooms. 


We invited those teachers who participated in the summer course to then host lab classrooms within the school year. And so teachers were able to go in and see each other try out some of these Patterns of Power lessons. And of course the best bang for your buck in those conversations are the debrief: what went well and what didn't go well. And so I would say a lot of our initial implementation was really just an in-house, in-depth look at the work in general and just really debriefing those.


From there, some examples were shared among teachers. You know, as the year goes on and progresses, you share, like, “Hey, this worked really well. Try that out.” And so a little trial by error for a couple months until we really got to a place where we were then able to look at, okay, what fits where, which are the lessons that are making sense now that we've had time to really try out at 6th, at 7th, at 8th, what are we seeing as the needs in each of those grade level areas, and which lessons are really speaking to us maybe as far as, because it's a shared title that it's using an example from that we are already using a lot in 6th or we know that we're looking at complex sentences in, in this certain area of the unit.


And so those conversations then started to happen in a  cadre where we had teachers who were working on content and curriculum. And when, once those conversations really happened, that's when I really could see the inner workings in classrooms, as I was in and out of a few classrooms, starting to see those nuggets, those little seedlings that were placed, really starting to blossom to teachers who weren't in that initial summer class. 

And so that's really where we're at right now, along with then with elementary kind of starting a little bit, I wouldn't really say after us, but maybe just a little bit. And now the conversations vertically are starting to happen too. So I'll let Corinne talk a little bit about what our elementary friends were doing at the same time. 


Corinne: So after we…so the purchasing of the Patterns of Power and the conversations with Catherine happened in February of 2020.  And we had started like, getting really excited and doing all the work and then wah, wah, wah.


So after we were able to get through all of that, we're like, we need the authors here. Because Catherine had tried to, you know,  walk us through your work, which was fantastic, and we had gotten a little taste of it. We're like, okay, now let's bring Whitney in and really dive in.


There was a day where Whitney came to our district and modeled for all of our coaches. We picked a couple of teachers to be lab sites, because seeing the work in action is really what needs to happen. We need to see it with our own students and our own classroom. And then we also engaged the coaches in the work because there's no way that you can teach it as well if you haven't lived it yourself. And so that day was split between. coaching learning and coaching observation. And so that was a really, really rich experience that I wanted the coaches to, that's when the, it's like starting the spark, you know, and that excitement led to us picking a few teachers at a few different schools that had actually, I had a speech pathologist actually come to me and said, “Do you know this book? Do you know this work?” And I was like, gosh, she just came and she's coming back and it was really, really cool. So and you know, in our district, we really believe deeply that we do things with teachers and not to teachers. 


And so then In the fall, I think it was the next fall, Whitney. We had Whitney come in and what we did was we had six different days. We had three days, one week, three days, another week. And we also believe that all of the teachers need to hear it; when you hear it from the actual person that wrote the work, there's, it just hits differently than a train-the-trainer model. 


And so Whitney came in and spent a full day. And what we were able to do was because subs are always an issue. We had half day sessions. And so every grade level. got to be released from their school: half in the morning, half in the afternoon, and they all received the same message. They all received a book, and so that was that was a really, really exciting time because it was fresh. It answered a lot of their need, and then what we did was we requested that they took two lessons, and they had a couple of months to implement and just play with it.


We were just really trying to emphasize bite off as much as you can chew this year, instead of just, you know, jamming it down their throat. We wanted them to just dabble and play. And then we all came back in December and debriefed about it and just had some conversations about “How did it go?” and “What do you still need?”


And so we, we surveyed them. And then through that we're planning this year's work with Whitney and grade level needs. And then in addition to that, we had behind the scenes, Whitney was working with our cadre, and our cadre consists of we have a primary and intermediate teacher from each building. So it's a cross section of our district. So it's a vertical representation of teachers. They apply to be a part of it, so it feels kind of elite and teacher leadership, and Whitney empowered them with a deeper dive and a deeper understanding of the work, so that they felt like they were one step ahead of their colleagues and they were able to go back and share.


And so what we were working on through the year was basically curriculum development, just kind of what Katie was talking about. We already have our self-constructed units of study that our teachers of our cadre has worked really hard on, and so then they were able to layer on with Whitney's help what lessons complement the units that are in place. And so now on the top of our curriculum-alignment forms, we're putting in 

  • What are the lessons?

  • What are the resources? 

  • What are the things to think about?


And so that will be pushed out and delivered to our teachers this fall. So we've said, “Okay, you had a year to play with it. Now here is where it's going to live. So you don't have to make the decisions. You don't have to wonder what should be taught where,” because when you open up the book, you're like, ah, it's representative of a lot of different grade levels. And so Whitney was able to say, yes, that says this and you can use it in this grade level. This is also another great lesson. for this unit, for this grade level. 


Oh, and Patterns of Wonder. That was super exciting that it was specific to our kindergarten teachers. The kindergarten teachers.  We all, we all love them so very much and not often are they gifted with something that is specific to their needs. And so they are like, whole-hog in. They are so excited that they're like, we can be all seen.  And our first grade teachers too. We've provided both resources for our first grade teachers because we understand that Patterns of Wonder, they could potentially grow out of it. And so we want them to feel supported with the Patterns of Power work yet to come.


So, this year what we want to do is provide the classroom experience for the teachers because last year they just got a comprehensive look at the work. And then this year we're going to deepen their understanding by either bringing students over for Whitney to work with at our central office, or we will go. We are lucky enough to have an elementary school right across the state. The street. And so it's nice to be able to walk over and be in the classroom and be immersed and then to come back and debrief the work like Katie said, I mean, there's  nothing more powerful than to say, “What did you notice? What are you still wondering?” So that's where we are right now with implementation. 


Whitney: I love it. So exciting just to hear about your journey. So, I'd like you each to consider, you know, a success or something that you really like about Patterns of Power. But then also if you've had any struggles, I think it's important to recognize that we value that productive struggle, right? Because that is how we move our work forward. So: successes and struggles.  


Katie: I'll start with a success. Definitely.  We as you know, teachers in any grade level are often struggling with, how do I fit it all in? Time never feels like a friend in a classroom of whatever grade level you are teaching. So one success that I was thinking about this past year was in a conversation, I think it was a morning meeting where we were discussing one of our growth measure assessments, some, something; it was not a Patterns of Power meeting to say the least, right? So it was completely separate. 


And a teacher rightfully needing to vent, needing to really dive into “How do I fit this all in?” I think she was expressing that she was planning to do the, the,  She had to do a library visit, she had to start her growth measure assessment. And she was hoping to do the invitation to apply part of one of her Patterns of Power lessons, you know, so  what she really wanted to be doing was Patterns of Power, you know, the work that she wanted to enjoy the most, or, you know, the library visit or something of that.


But really the nugget happened, the best part was when another teacher was able to really ask her, “Well, why, why does that invitation to apply feel like such a big deal? What lesson are you on? What are you trying to accomplish in that?” And really understanding that this teacher who was worried about how much time it was going to take and was able to listen to another teacher who said it was, was explaining in a way that it's really more in context. And so unless you're, you're asking your students to apply it within their quick write that they're doing or something that they're working on, right. It's, it's not, this must take a chunk of time of your class.


And so I think this was a moment where then the rest of the people who were in that meeting were able to like, understand it like this as a process, not just as the, the program, you know, it's, and that's, that's a piece of advice that I would give to other districts who were going into Patterns of Power is that the process is really the, the the beauty of it. It's, it's not just, “Hey, we're doing Patterns of Power. Here's this one, do it now.”


And, and that goes along with a struggle. We do often lean on task oriented things, you know. I would say we were really, really effective in the writer's workshop. Before 2020, we had some stellar teachers who were just exemplary teachers who could, man, you walked into their workshop classroom and you'd want to be a student and just love writing as well. Unfortunately, when things changed, a lot of our work went onto, you know, learning platforms on technology and things like that. You noticed a trend becoming a little more task oriented. And so one,  one,  I wrote in my notes, ick. One ick was when a teacher created some “Patterns of Power,” I'm using air quotes, worksheets. 


It's not a product. It's, it's all in the idea to invite students to notice something that, they're likely not going to normally notice on their own. And then how do we bridge that o our understanding, our comprehension of what we're reading, our purpose of what we're writing, the meaning behind what we're writing?


And so, all in all, that little conversation was just this highlight that I remember this year where almost you could see the light bulb over this teacher's head just kind of turn on in a way that wasn't. It's not just a box to check because you have to do your Patterns of Power lesson, not that it's in context with what you're reading in class, or maybe because what are they trying to write? Let's give it purpose behind what we're doing and do it within their writing.  


Whitney: I love that. 


Katie: Yeah, that is, that's the one thing I most wanted to share today. 


Whitney: Awesome. I'm so glad you got to share it. 


Corinne: Yeah. That's awesome.  


Katie: One other, I'm going to go, Corinne. One other unintentional consequence of Patterns of Power. I've noticed some of the teachers in our district, at least in six through eight, become really great at book talks again: really short snippets of introducing high interest, relevant, rigorous texts that are just lovely to hear. I was in a classroom towards the end of the year where the teacher was giving a short book talk of Jason Reynolds’ Ghost, and oh my gosh, that's not the newest, I mean, that title has been on the shelf for a few years now. The librarian said that she was scrounging all of the other classrooms in the building looking for copies of Ghost, because the teacher had given a book talk on it. And it's just really awesome to see even the,  like I said, unintentional consequences of some of the skills one has when you practice Patterns of Power more often. So, snaps to that. 


Corinne: So some of our successes. Kind of very similar to what Katie said. You get a few teachers excited and then it just cross-pollinates, and you give them an opportunity to collaborate and to share experiences. And I think that that's really, you know, administrators and district leaders, if you're listening, that's what teachers need is. They don't just need the training. They need opportunities to collaborate and share their experiences. And so that has really built our momentum so much just from sharing from one another. And my kids did this. And then also just the accessibility to the content, and the teachers feel so much smarter about what they're trying to teach, which then opens up You know, you can't read a text once you know something, you can't unsee it.


And so kind of like to Katie's point, not only are the teachers able to they're, they just have a different lens to look through. Like, “Oh, look at that punctuation and look at this.” It's just generative in that way. You know, you can name it and, and you own it, which is where the application will eventually come.


And I would say that that's probably where most of our questions come in. The teachers love the work. They're so excited about the work. And now what we need to move into is that carry over in the application for the students. In isolation, they're able to do it, and yet they're not seeing it completely in their writing yet, but that's what our future work will you know, we answered their first concern of we need something for our conventional work. And then now, we can move into you're starting the implementation process and what other, you know, questions arise.


And I think that that really speaks to the power of ongoing professional development. It is not enough just to purchase the materials, and it's not enough just to have the consultants come in and share one or two days. We've got to have a way to thread it through. And so, you know, fortunately for our district, we have coaches that help to thread the needle in when the consultants are not there, but the idea of implementing this as a district level coach without having the support and knowledge from Whitney, it would not be the same.

My interpretation of her work might be okay, but her having alongside me, we were able to really customize like this is exactly what our cadre needs to do and how are we going to make that work. And Whitney dug into our standards and she created a document that was so beneficial to our teachers. She came prepared with what are the Missouri Learning Standards and where are they going to live in our curriculum. And so then our teachers were like, Oh my gosh, what a gift. I don't have to sift through all of that. So then the teachers didn't have to make decisions about the standards, they were able to read the standards and dissect the standards and own them by the time that they left that day.


And that all happened in a day because of the pre-work that Whitney had done. So If that if you're wondering where and when this could live, I would highly recommend holding hands with the consultants, and it just will expediate the implementation. And I think really deepen the work that you're able to accomplish. 


So when you said that there was a question about what would you, what advice would you give to district leaders? And I think that it's probably a continuation of what I was just speaking about. But again, it's not just enough to purchase the materials. That's a step. They have to have the thing that they have to have the resources, but resources are not enough without ongoing support. So in whatever way district leaders, I know that we all have our struggles, nd I know that we all have our obstacles. But what are you trying to accomplish? And if you're trying to accomplish empowered teachers that love the work that want to engage in the work, the model has to be that you purchase the resources and you have the consultants come in and hold your hand and seeing the work in the classroom, in addition to engaging the teachers in the work, I think that is really what has poured gasoline on the fire that was originally started. It just that's where they carry over and the implementation will strengthen for the teachers perspective. 


Because again, like Katie said, We're not just handing stuff to you and telling you to implement it in the absence of teaching you. Because gifting a book is fantastic. That takes time and effort to dig in on your own, and that feels more isolating. So anytime we can get people sharing and collaborating, that's where the real magic occurs in my experience.  


Whitney: Well, and I think it's too important to that Patterns of Power is meant to be supplemental, right? It's not like you said, a program. It's not your writing that you're doing. And to have that teachers have this understanding that it, the work you do in Patterns of Power is going to feed directly into any literacy work that you're doing in your district and literacy in content areas as well. It feeds into that.


So having that understanding, I appreciate you saying it's not a program, right? Having an understanding of that process. So thank you for that.  


Corinne: Yeah. Well, thank you for creating the work. It's really, really transformational for our teachers and our students and their writing. I mean, it's fantastic that we have, you know, not only a love for writing, and we have that compositional piece, but now we have the other side of it to really flesh out their work and to make it so clear and you know, better for their readers.


It was a little sweet first grader. They were doing choice writing and she just wrote a whole book about verbs because she knew all about them, and she owned the material and she was so excited about it that she wrote it. And so I shot that over to Whitney right away. I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so fantastic. It's just, it's contagious in the best way possible. 


Whitney: Celebrate it. Yes. Yep. The work that comes from it. 


Corinne: Yeah. Right.   


Travis: All right. Is there anything that we did not ask that we maybe missed that you either of you would like to share with us any kind of final thoughts before we, before I ask our last question?


Whitney: I was going to say we have to do the last question. 


Travis: Oh, we will. Okay. 


Katie: Oh, nice. I had a little quote  in my,  in my obsession of Jeff Anderson.  Travis, I'm not meaning to be a fangirl over Jeff and not you, Travis. You've been wonderful, Travis. 


Travis: I am a fellow fanboy.

 

Whitney: He's a fanboy too. We're all in Jeff Anderson's fan club for sure.


Travis: I think that's where all of this started, right? 


Katie: Yeah, exactly. One, one I had jotted down was, and I just think, you know, in the middle school classroom with 45 minutes, I talk about time a lot. You know, my teachers we're, we're just begging for time and I mentioned that earlier. But the biggest bang for our buck is on things that are encompassing of reading and writing. Not that the, not in any way form that the two exist in two different silos. And so one quote that always sticks out to me is “The grammar bridge. links comprehension and composition.” I always come back to that, like the activating of meaning and purpose, which operates between reading and writing, not in one or the other.


And I think in a 45 minute classroom where you are the responsible teacher for the reading and the writing standards, you know, it's always nice to, in theory, think about the things that give us that biggest bang for our buck.  And Patterns of Power is, is an avenue. It is a supplement. Like you said, Whitney, a supplement, it is not the program, but the supplement that is able to do that.

And so we're, we're big fans.  


Travis: Great.  


Corinne: Yeah. And I just want to, can I just say something to the teachers out there listening and you're not in a district that is able to do the things that we have been fortunate enough to do. I don't want you to feel discouraged. And when I said buying the book is not enough, it can be. And there are so many resources online and there are networks of people on like Facebook, there's Facebook groups; and what I would say to you and what I would encourage you to do is to get your hands into the work and find people to talk about it with, and that will really no matter what your district is implementing, this work. If  you too are the type of teacher that goes for the periods and capitals and you're feeling intimidated by your other standards, this work can elevate your understanding of what you are expected to teach. 


So I, I just wanted to say that because I don't want it to come across that everything is successful because of this. And it, and it certainly is. And we, we acknowledge how fortunate we are. And also I was just telling them I just came back from doing some item writing for the state, and there are a lot of teachers in rural districts that money is scarce and they're, you know, they might be the only grade level teacher in the whole entire district, but certainly that is not an obstacle that you can't overcome in other ways.

And so I just wanted to say that. 


Whitney: Thank you. So yes, we have our Facebook group, the Patterns of Power community, where you can network there. And we also have so many videos that are free for viewing to see how this works in the classroom. We have webinars and that is all on www.routledge.com, which is our overarching publisher. And if you just search Patterns of Power there, you will come to our page that has all of that. So lots, lots of places to do your own learning as well.  


Travis: Thank you for sharing that Whitney.  So we would love to end this enlightening conversation with the two of you. The question that we want to ask of all the educators that come on the podcast because we want to share in the joy of life with you. So our final question is tell us one thing that's bringing you joy in your life right now. 


Katie: I bet we're going to say the same or similar thing, Corinne. 


Corinne: Okay, you go first. 


Katie: Okay. I have a five year old son at home. His name is Levi, and he is busy. We have him in t-ball and swim lessons. We live on a lake; he's in sailing lessons. He is a busy bee, but the joy that is bringing me, that the joy in my life right now is watching him grow and watching, you know, the work that our state and our district is doing, even with foundational reading. It's, it's in those little light bulb moments where I see him start to do things and say, “Look, mom, look,” you know, in the, in those ways.  And so, it has been just a joy in my life to go swimming with him in the lake, even on a Tuesday night.


But also he starts kindergarten this fall, and I just cannot wait to  have all the things, all the things and, and continue to watch him grow as a human, as a reader, as a writer, as a cool baseball player.  So, that's my joy.  


Corinne: Yeah I mean, yeah, my kids are definitely my joy as well. My 15 year old son: baseball, my 10 year old daughter: volleyball. 

But you know, I, this summer I found as I was moving my office, I'm moving positions in the fall, and I found a box of letters that It was from my freshman year of college. My mom printed out every email I sent to her.  Y'all. What it has sparked: A few years ago, I started a journal for each of my kids to put down like letters to them or highlights of their life or whatever. And that has rejuvenated that for me because it fell to the wayside as you know many things do.


And so privately I'm doing these little things for my kids in their notebooks of like the things that they say. It's just like, oh, or the things that they find interesting at this season of their life. Because of the gift that my mom gave me of reliving my freshman year of college. 


At any rate, that's my joy. That is my joy. I'll save those stories for a different podcast, but… 


Whitney: That's such a special thing to do for your kids. What a great idea. 


Corinne: Yeah. Well, thanks to my mom. It was. It was cool to, ooh, laugh. 


Travis: I feel all that joy. I'm absorbing it. Smile on my face. Well, Katie and Corinne, we so appreciate you sharing your wisdom from your journey implementing Patterns of Power, as well as your time trying it out in your classrooms. We so thank you for all of the things that you shared that our audience can take with them and use for their benefit. And just know that we're here with you to support your ongoing journey. However you need us, we're here to connect with you.  


Corinne: We feel that we know that we're so appreciative. And shout out to the BSSD teachers. You guys are amazing. Woo.  Yeah, you, you and the writers, if you're listening out there, kiddos, we see you. Thank you guys so much for your work, and thank you for the privilege of asking us to come on and share. Katie and I are truly, truly humbled by being asked. Yes. Thank you. 


Katie: Thank you guys so much. 


Whitney: I'm so glad you came on. We do the, the work that you're doing in that, that district is awesome. And I just keep it up and your teachers are amazing. Your students are amazing. 


Katie: We think so too. 


Whitney: Yeah. Awesome. 


Corinne: Thanks so much.

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